CASINO NEWS & OPERATIONS FORUM
INTERNATIONAL GAMING NEWS ~ JOB LISTINGS ~ MULTI-MEDIA
Gamingfloor.com
YouTube
Facebook
Pinterest
Gamingfloor.biz
Flickr
Twitter  

Interested in becoming a forum sponsor? Please contact us for further details

Go Back   Casino News and Operations Forum > Casino Operations > Table Games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11th May 2005
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 9,861
Question 20,000 cards a day - Is that possible ?

Every week now there are stories that reveal amazing statistics for Macau's casino industry. Hopefully I will shortly put together a collection so that business in the SAR can be compared to that of Las Vegas.

In the meantime this is the latest from the AFP.

11th May
Cashing in on Macau's casino gold mine
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...u_050511154809


This quote was of interest...

" With a sudden surge in mainland Chinese tourists fuelling this growth, Macau is now big business and everybody is trying to get a piece of the pie.

"I predict that within a few short years about 25 percent of all our casino business will be in Macau -- that's from very little now," said Scott Madding, international casino sales manager for the United States Card Company.

With each casino in the city consuming some 20,000 cards each night, his company sees huge gains in the new-look Macau. "


20,000 cards = circa 380/390 decks.

Would you say that is how nany decks are required considering some of the properties have over 100 Baccarat tables. Do we have any members who can confirm the consumption ?

Also what equipment do you use to check and destroy them.


Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11th May 2005
Mzamba_Slim Mzamba_Slim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 201
Is that all?

Those numbers sound low.

We get through around 50 cases (144 decks) of each color (2) a week.
We open around 85 games (all card games, including craps!) midweek - up to 160 at the weekend, and change cards every shift.

We use US Playing card. The cards are checked using Vending Data 'deck checkers'. Then we use a very big shredder, with a tin of WD40.
__________________
TTFN
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11th May 2005
123 123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Macau
Posts: 765
Just the 100 baccarat tables would be 800 decks. They probably introduce new decks each shoe. I think it may have been 20000 decks?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12th May 2005
asiadave asiadave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Asia
Posts: 14
Cool 20000 minimum

Having worked in Asia for nearly a decade i can confirm that 20000 cards can easily be consumed daily on a 24 hour operation. If you look at the size of some of the casinos planned for Macau you can multiply that by 5+.
Ian also asked about checking and destroying this volume of cards.......although some suppliers are looking at automated sorting systems, these are unreliable and expensive. Most operations get the staff to sort. As for destruction, this ranges from high speed shredders to industrial incinerators, dependent on the operator.

One thing is certain, we all wish we had the contract to supply the cards to any of these operations.

asiadave.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th May 2005
willy willy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Macau

The big Macau Casinos use Angel cards which are pre-shuffled and sorted and do not require checking.

They arrive in 4 or 8 deck packs and can go straight onto the baccarat tables. They have a security seal provided by Angel and the quality control is excellent and error rate nearly non existent. As they are all midi bac (squeeze game) they are used once. Lisboa the biggest Baccarat operation in the world goes through some 50k cards a day.

Destruction is relatively easy with heavy duty card shredding machines.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th May 2005
GoldenTriangle GoldenTriangle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Asia
Posts: 1
Smile Playing card in Macau

Heard below info from my ex-collegue who is now working there.

1. Galaxy uses apprx 100,000 decks every month. They just installed MP Bacc system from MindPlay to all the tables and they system requires BEE cards with special marking.

2. SJM (Lisboa and other casinos owned by Stanley Ho) use both BEE and ANGEL. He assume they consume more than 250,000 decks per month.

3. SANDS.... volume is not sure but maybe somewhere between Galaxy and SJM. They use ANGEL and GEMACO.

How they dispose the used cards... SANDS and GALAXY have some shredder
machines developed specifically for playing cards.

Considering the above figures, its already very close to 20,000 deck a day.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17th May 2005
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 9,861
Question Pre-shuffled and sorted ?

Hello Willy,

Can you clarify your comment

"which are pre-shuffled and sorted and do not require checking"

I take it to mean that 6 or 8 decks of cards arrive at the table already shuffled and ready to go. Therefore there is no display of the cards to the players and no shuffle - presumably just a cut.

Where are these cards shuffled. In the factory or perhaps in some dedicated shuffling/checking room just off the gaming floor ?


Ian

PS. Welcome to the forum GT.
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18th May 2005
willy willy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Back of House

The cards do not get checked back of house by deck checkers or card detectives . Essentially the cards arrive in 8 deck packs are put into card boxes and taking to the tables. They are shuffled on the table but do not have any prior shuffling or sorting complated.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18th May 2005
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 9,861
Post Shuffled on the table

Hello Willy,

What you have said appears to contradict what you wrote earlier.

Now we have the cards being shuffled on the table in front of players as is normal procedure around the world. The pre-shuffling remotely which I understood you to mean being introduced to keep the game flowing with little or no down time.

Also the shuffle and subsequent placement of cards into the shoe is one of the biggest procedural/security problems in Punto Banco/Baccarat. Shuffling of cards away from the table can mitigate that but also introduce others into the equation.


Do we have any members who can enlighten us as to how long the average 8 deck shoe can take to deal in Macau if new cards are required after each completed one ?


Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18th May 2005
willy willy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Clarify

Essentially what normally happens with Baccarat cards is:
• They arrive from the manufacturer.
• They are checked and shuffled back of house
• They are sealed and delivered to the pits
• Arrive at the table and are reshuffled in front of the patron.


Variation on this include
• Cards delivered straight from the manufacturer to the table.
• Cards delivered and sealed without checking/shuffling.

On the table variations include:
• Chemmy Shuffle followed by a standard shuffle.
• Normal shuffle
• Decks put into a batch shuffler.
• No shuffle at all.

Variations occur from Casino to Casino and within each Casino depending on the patrons’ needs or wants. Remember that the top end players in places like Macau have differentials ranging up to US$200k -$400k.

Generally a game of midi baccarat will last an hour in group situations. In a personal pit with one patron who is dealing from the shoe, shoes can last from 20 minutes to several hours.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 18th May 2005
mcfly68 mcfly68 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 13
20,000 cards a day - Is that possible? Most certainly.

I would say the average shoe of Baccarat would take 1hr 20mins on a "squeeze" game. So if we allow 10mins for changeover of the cards and table figure, we're looking at 1hr 30mins per shoe. Some casinos offer unlimited free coups which obviously speeds up the game. It is quite possible to get through 20,000 cards with only three Baccarat tables going 24 hrs with an average 1hr 30mins per shoe.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20th May 2005
sailor sailor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europa
Posts: 3
Almost

20k it is not easy but I think the figure almost there. They use baccarat cards only once. Comes from Japan (Angel) pre-checked and shuffled in 8 decks. 100 tables and lets say Average operation is 20 hrs. One set of card per table per hour, which is 8*100*20= 16,000. Plus non VIP room usage. Maybe during weekend days higher operation. At the end 20k is possible. I do not think they shred cards, must be something else.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


 
GAMING FLOOR'S TWEETED PUBLICATIONS
 International Casino News
 British Casino/Poker
 Asian Casino News
 Internet & Interactive
 Prob. & Resp. Gambling
 Canadian Casino News
 Southern Africa Casino News
 Casino News en Español
 Casino News auf Deutsch

eXTReMe Tracker

Reset: 1/4/2008
~ Submit site - Add URL


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Online since: 7th October 2002