GMB threatening strike action at Stanley Casinos

[ian]

The BBC and Press Association have reports this evening that the GMB Union are unhappy with a 3.2% pay offer from Stanley Casinos and may be prepared to call for strike action.

http://www.gmb.org.uk
http://www.stanleyleisure.com

7th June.

Pay Strike At Casino Group On Cards
http://www.ananova.com/business/stor...atestheadlines

Union threatens casino pay strike
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4617599.stm


" The GMB union has announced a consultative ballot of 1,000 members working for Stanley Casinos, which has 41 sites in England and Scotland.

The ballot is in protest at a 3.2% pay offer - the union wants a 4.5% rise and improvements in working conditions. "


Both articles have a disturbing reference to staff in one casino having to huddle around a tumble dryer in a break room to keep warm. If this story is true then those responsible should be hanging their collective heads in shame.


Further news links will be posted when available.


Ian

[stretch]

Sounds like nothing has changed in the 11yrs that I have been out of the UK. I used to work for Stakis. The poor wages, the lack of any support from managers when confronted by bullying punters, and the sweat shop mentality all seem to be still part and parcel of the working environment. In my 6 yrs there I didn't know any better, so it was only when I went to work abroad that I realised how much the company had got away with.

Good luck to the GMB. Somebody needs to drag the UK casino groups kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. Stick it up 'em I say!

[ian]

The news of threatened strike action has also been picked up by the Times and Edinburgh Evening News.

Casino chain faces strike vote
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/pr...645150,00.html

Union gambles on strike action at city casinos
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ed...m?id=629562005


The tumble dryer story appears to have been at one of Stanley's three Edinburgh casinos.

"GMB said that some workers at an Edinburgh casino were so cold that they used a tumble dryer to generate warmth."



Just doing a quick check on Gamingfloor.com's British casino listings.
http://www.gamingfloor.com/Britain

Scotland has 13 casinos but only 3 different owners.
8 Galas (Mainly ex Stakis - Ladbroke)
4 Stanley's
1 Independent - The International in Aberdeen.

Gala & Stanley between them having a monopoly on operations in both Glasgow and Edinbugh.


Is there a connection between poor working conditions and lack of competition in the market ?
It would certainly appear that way.

Ian

[Craig]

Hi,

While this is not good news really, why should people strike to get good working conditions? This surely must be a wake up call for the casino industry in the UK, too long have these companies been allowed to operate casinos with no regard to their staff. Ian mentioned on another thread about Casino Holland, and the fact that he has not heard one negative thing about them since the creation of Gamingfloor, could this be because they treat their staff and customers with respect and courtesy? Perhaps casino companies here should take a leaf out of Casino Holland's book, I like some of the things they say in their annual report (below)

Quote:

All guests can expect a warm welcome and the highest standards of hospitality. They are assured of a fair game, with something to appeal to everyone. We provide an excellent service to players and non-players alike.

Quote:

Our staff display courtesy and respect to all guests. They are continually honing their professional skills. Modern working conditions encourage them to provide the best possible service at all times.

Quote:

We maintain our continuity by achieving good profitability levels. We invest in staff and equipment in order to keep our casinos up to date and attractive. In doing so, we also guarantee security of employment.

And the fruit of the pudding is the figures for the last financial year.

net revenue of €536.9 million
net operating profit €123.7 million.
23% for the year!

pdf download
http://www.hollandcasino.nl/nl_PDFRe...eport_2004.pdf

http://www.hollandcasino.com/

So if they can achieve a good working relationship with staff and punters alike, why can't UK casinos do the same?

Originally Posted by stretch

Somebody needs to drag the UK casino groups kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. Stick it up 'em I say!

Have to get them in the 20th century first, and go from there!

Craig

[stretch]

Croupiers of the UK unite! You have nothing to lose but your "quick 10 minute cig break". And before you all think I am an anarcho-syndicalist just looking to stir up trouble, I should tell you that I am in a fairly senior position overseas. I think it is terrific that enough casino staff of all departments are possibly on the verge of pointing out to the casino operators that what they are doing is not acceptable. At the very least they have already shamed the operators and that in itself is a victory of sorts.

[Wilphe]

I wonder who it was who decided it would be a good idea to start recognizing unions?

And are they keeping a low profile around Stanley's head office right now?

[ian]

The title of this thread and the subject matter are the negotiations between Stanley Leisure and the GMB Union over pay and conditions.

I hope that it will not get hijacked (as has happened to a thread on a previous occasion) and used as a vehicle to bash individuals and to settle old scores.

Otherwise I will reluctantly have to do some editing.


The Liverpool Post has an update on the negotiations and also quotes from Stanley regarding the present state of play.

Casinos strike threat
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html

The link may not be permanent so here are the key quotes...


" Workers at the firm's 41 UK casinos have rejected a 3.2% pay offer and the GMB union is now consulting its members over what steps to take next. The result of the consultation will be made known on Friday, June 17, after which talks with the management will resume. "

The article continues...


" Yesterday Stanley issued a joint statement with the GMB which read: "Following discussions between the senior management of Stanley Casinos and the GMB national delegation, further dates have been arranged to continue the negotiation process regarding annual pay and conditions.

"Both Stanley Casinos and the GMB are committed to working towards a solution to the current issues in a constructive and responsible manner.

"The GMB is in the process of consulting with its members prior to the next meeting with Stanley Casinos' management..

"However, contrary to recent reports, the GMB is not in the process of taking any industrial action." "


So in a nutshell, the GMB appear to be consulting with their membership and negotiations with the company commence once again on the 17th June.

Let's hope that they are constructive.


Ian

P.S. After posting this last message I found a press release dated 7th June on the GMB website.

Casino Workers Strike Looms As Pay Offer Rejected By Stanley Casino Staff
http://www.gmb.org.uk/Templates/Inte...p?NodeID=91865

[jhn]

Well lets hope they can thrash things out.

Stanley is the biggest casino operator in the UK and the people at the top are businessmen. There is only one way to run a successful business and that is to take your staff with you.

It serves no ones best interests to have the company and staff in opposing trenches and i would hope that Stanley directors take a step back.Look at the situation and realise they are doing something wrong.There is a line to what any person or group of staff can put up with . Obviously that line has been crossed.

This is the 21st Century and companies should provide a healthy and safe working environment and pay a fair days wage for a fair days work. One of the main reasons progressive companies do this is because in the long run it makes business sense. As the case of Holland Casinos and others proves.

Ian asked if there was a direct correlation between a lack of competition and poor working conditions. Being from Scotland i can honestly say yes . I made reference before to 'no poaching' agreements that exist between the managements in stanley and gala so there is no choice for staff. They also IMO work together to keep salaries low and what constitutes acceptable working conditions are dreadful. Personally i would like to see this monopoly ended and rules brought into place so that areas of the country cannot simply be carved up so proper competitive conditions can take effect. IMO if that happened then wages and conditions would improve considerably

[Coventryman]

I believe it was Mr P Collis.
No longer with us.

[gam1ng_Boy]

It is a shame to hear that the same reasons that I left the UK ,12 years ago,are still the source of conversation today,poor working conditions.
Why do UK casino operators feel that treating their staff like crap is in any way productive.They need to take a close look at how american operators do business,who knows,it may just give the british gaming industry a better image(that is sure does need), if they followed suit.
Wake up operators,were in the 21st century now!!!!
It's about time a union took care of croupiers needs,good luck.

[casper]

How does one incidence of poor working conditions indicate that conditions are the same across the industry in Scotland. Is this a case that all casinos are being portrayed in a poor light because of one incident which may have been sensationalised by the press.

With regard to the threatened strike my understanding is the GMB have approximately a 40% representation in Stanleys. Therefore to achieve a majority in a strike ballot only slightly more that 20% of Stanleys staff have to vote in favour. Hardly a democratic process!

[jhn]

I feel i have some authority to comment on conditions in Scotland having worked in 4 of them at one point or another .That is with both companies.

This is anything but an isolated incident. I have many friends who still work in the casino industry in Scotland and some of what they have to put up with is to put it mildly unacceptable.

The tumble dryer incident is i can guarantee true and not sensationalised whatsoever.

No group of staff in any other industry would put up with the levels of bullying , harassment , violence and abuse that people have to put up with in those casinos in Scotland that i have worked in . So why are casinos so different. I nearly forgot "its part of the job". Well newsflash It is not part of any job

All they want is a normal working environment. NOTE i did not say easy, good or fabulous just normal. Surely not to much to ask for. Time for "old school management" as they call it in scotland to be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. When the stanley/gala duopoly is brought to an end hopefully these practices will too . But why should the staff have to wait ?

Of course that is not to say one or two behave differently. But i cannot speak of first hand experience and am therefore not qualified to comment on them.

Craig asked the question earlier in this thread :

Why should staff have to go on strike for decent working conditions in the 21st century ?

I am sure that for most people that picked up their newspapers on wednesday morning and read these articles that question would have been their question too.

[stretch]

Hi Casper

I am sure the tumble drier story was released by the union. At a time like this I am sure it is to their benefit to release this kind of info to raise the stakes somewhat. It is quite obvious the story came from somewhere, and that it was not from the company. It is likely it is a 'representation' of the truth.

However, with my own experience of UK casinos, and bearing in mind that the story has been corroborated by jhn, I would tend to believe that the staffroom was very cold because there was no heating.

[jhn]

The ballot is in protest at a 3.2% pay offer - the union wants a 4.5% rise and improvements in working conditions. "

After speaking to former colleagues. 3.2% is the offer and has been accepted to a point.

The wage issue is that the staff want a minimum £500 rise for those staff whose salary would rise by less than this if the 3.2% is applied.Giving a bigger % rise to staff in departments/clubs where wages are lower.So for those on minimum wage the increase would be 4.5%

The other major issue for the staff that i have spoken to is the attitude taken towards abusive, threatening or violent customers. Management in the clubs that these staff work in see this sort of behaviour as acceptable and offer minimal or no support to frontline staff on the recieving end.Also no action is taken against customers who act as such no matter the seriousness or frequency.

This is an attitude which unfortunately given the press reports appears to be common across the country and not just a local issue. Hopefully the "its part of the job" attitude towards harassment , abuse and violence will be eradicated by all means necessary.

This is also i am advised by former colleagues a major part of discussions as frankly they have had enough. I would hope the directors of the company take a more progressive view than some of their local management.I am sure given that many are not your average UK casino dinosaur they will do.

I am sure for anybody on the outside the fact that such issues are being discussed under the terms ' working conditions ' this would be a something of a shock.This being the 21st century

As i have already said though all that is being asked for is 'normal working conditions'.This should not have to be asked for in this day and age.

Is abuse either violent or verbal of staff viewed as acceptable in any other industry ?

Is the right to abuse staff seen as part of the service offered in casinos in other countries ?

[PaulE]

Glad to see this issue is finally being addressed head on. I mean we do have a more 'yobbish' culture than many nations but you couldnt get away with that behaviour in a club or pub and you shouldnt get away with it in a casino either.

I myself have a scar on my hand inflicted by a punters cigar nearly 20 years ago now. I was asked to apologise or lose my job, so I bought a one way ticket to Miami and went to look for work on the ships...which I was lucky enough to find. There was no possibility that the player would receive anything other than a mild reprimand from the invertibrates that passed for management in that club at the time.

Enough is enough and I fully support anyone that stands up for their rights to a safe working environment.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by PaulE

I myself have a scar on my hand inflicted by a punters cigar nearly 20 years ago now. I was asked to apologise or lose my job...

Not to get away from the subject, but why would you have to apologise after the punter done that? Also, do I know him? PM me the name if you want

I remember one punter throwing a chip at my face once, after I had him against the wall with my hand around his neck, I was asked to apologise, I told the manager quite bluntly that I would not, and if he wanted me to I would phone the police first and let them sort it out, fortunatly he backed down, and the punter came back the next day full of apologies, it wasn't my proudest moment in the industry, but I don't take that kind of crap of anyone!

Sorry for diverting the topic a little!

Craig

[123]

I think the problem used to be that a lot of the staff were young. 18 to early twenties. For most it was their first job and they knew no difference. Those that said something would be easily intimidated by the older management. I was probably the same.

If anything like this happened to me now I would be demanding action be taken. The companies have certain responsibilites with regard the safety of employees. If some of these incidents went to a tribunal I don't see any positive outcome for the company. Almost certainly they would avoid such an outcome. Its easier to take no shit when your older and stand up for yourself. I am not a big fan of unions but the situation in many casinos (not just the UK) requires their involvement. This is a bigger issue in my opinion than the low salaries.

[PaulE]

Originally Posted by Craig

Not to get away from the subject, but why would you have to apologise after the punter done that? Also, do I know him? PM me the name if you want

This happened in Leicester when I got moved up there from Annabelles in Swansea, dont remember the guys name. I was asked to apologise becuase I smacked him in the side of the head (very hard if I remember) with the shoe after he ground his cigar out on my hand.

The ham shanker of a manager pulled me into the office and demanded I apologise, about a month or so later I was on my way to Bermuda on my first ship......not my loss.

[col28662]

Just logged into your forum which made interesting reading.
As you may be aware after over 20 years in the casino business I have made the break and am now developing property both overseas and here in the UK.
Staff treatment and wages have been deteriorating significantly and certain casinos do not treat staff in a respectful manner.
Generally there has been excessive exploitation over the past fifteen years and casinos are really mainly interested in their shareholders/revenues and proffits with lower operating costs.
I recently left one very successful Cruise Company who in real terms have to be commended for being the market leaders in that present field. They have many proactive/hard working skilled staff with very aggressive marketing and revenue strategies (which incidentally most lines seemto be follow).
Unfortunately competition has been amalgamated leaving very few different options.
If I were to start out Royal Caribbean International would be my first choice as they certainly reward their upper management and recognize their contribution to continued success. This makes for a healthy working environment and gives a fresh starter ambition to progress; as all upper positions are rewarded accordingly and not with the shifting of tips to accommodate a higher wage.
I think ships management today are not recognized for their skills and talents which inlude the following: Work Ethic, Public Relations, Staffing Issues, Maximizing Revenues, Optimizing Floor areas, New Innovations/Ideas, Computer Literate, Able to communicate at all levels and willing to work over 12 - 14 hour days often 7 days a week.
Being a GM, Pit Boss, Inspector, Dealer, Bingo Manger, Slot Manager/Technician, Administrative Provider, Auditor, Financial Accountant, Ships Purser, Flight Arranger, Child Councillor, Casino Security/Surveillance Manager, Table Game Renovator, Stock Keeper, Advisor and general all round good bloke!
What would a progressive company be prepared to seriously pay for someone of this calibre in the professional world?
Who could; through knowledge and skills increase revenues and targets on a regular basis?
Hence I agree with strike action and believe casinos should promote loyal hardworking skilled staff and reward them accordingly.
This may assist with ridding that negativity in the staff room!
Casinos in the Uk have a lot to answer for as wages are less in London now than in 1990; (whilst at the Victoria in London) I was a Dice dealer on permanent nights earning in excess of £17,500 per year.

'HOW DOES THAT EQUATE IN TODAY'S MONEY?'

Regards,

Colin Soutar
(Your old shipmate)
--

[Craig]

Hi Colin,

Welcome to the forum!

Just done a quick search on the web and came up with the links below, I could only find comparisons for 1990 to 2002, but it does give you a general idea on how things stands today.

Originally Posted by col28662

'HOW DOES THAT EQUATE IN TODAY'S MONEY?'

How Much Is That?
http://eh.net/hmit/

Relative value of the Pound in 1990 - 2002

http://eh.net/hmit/ukcompare/result....ar_result=2002

Average Earnings 1990 - 2002

http://eh.net/hmit/ukearncpi/index.p...990&year2=2002

Craig

[jhn]

In a provincial casino that i used to work in

2001
Senior dealer salary - £14,100 p.a

Rising by average rate of inflation until 2005 - £15,746 p.a

2005
Senior dealer salary - £12,940

Now what is wrong with that picture............

[Craig]

Hi,

So taking into account of inflation at about 2.5% a year, they have in fact lost more than 21% of their salary in less than 4 years! Its simply disgraceful!

£15,746
£12,940 -

£2,806 = more than 21%

This has long been a bone of contention with Newview, he says that salaries have more than doubled, in fact that is simply not the case, if you don't even take into account of inflation, in real terms the salary of the position of Senior Dealer in Edinburgh has decreased by 8% over this short period. I know senior members of companies read these threads, perhaps you would like to comment on this very disturbing trend?

By the way I was earning more than £13,000 a year as an inspector going back 15 years ago, how can this kind of thing happen in the 21st century? I know this is Stanley related thread, but this relates to all UK companies, I hope you hang your heads in shame!

Craig

[Wilphe]

Originally Posted by Coventryman

I believe it was Mr P Collis.
No longer with us.

Coincidence?
Or not?

(That's rhetorical BTW)

To add figures to the mix:


Starter rate for Lumpies in London is c£16 - £17G

Seniors are, I believe, on £24-25G

[coconutretrieve]

It is widely recognised by many of the world's more progressive comapnies that where talented staff are viewed and treated as a company asset rather than just as a company expense the long term effects are invariably positive.

To put this into casino terms, I myself started my career with Ladbrokes in 1979. The whole Ladbrokes ethos was ( I later came to find out following their demise) remarkably enlightened and forward thinking in comparison to their competitors.

Ladbrokes had deliberately set out to recruit the very finest staff that they could for their four Mayfair casinos when they first started.They did this not only by paying more money than their competitors but by deliberately persuing a human resource policy that valued personnel rather than viewing them as nothing more than an unavoidable expense.

I myself was made acutely aware of the difference when I compared my own training to the "cannon fodder" techniques that were employed by Mecca as it was then.

Not for us the standing in (long long) line down Tottenham Court road waiting to be processed, only to turn up everyday not knowing if you had been selected for the ritual culling process that whittled all starting groups down to more manageble numbers.

Rather, two, extensive, interviews which culminated in being one of six persons who were trained on American Roulette by three dedicated trainers over a six week period.

Managers would periodically come down to check us over and the choice of our casino was worked out between employee and employer to ensure that everyone was happy.

On starting in the club itself (in my case The Park Lane Casino in Hertford Street) the training process was continued but I was made to feel by everyone that I spoke with that I was working for the finest Casino company in London.

There were many tears shed by the Ladbrokes staff on that fateful day when we finally lost our licences.

Over the next few years I worked for Corals, Mecca (no choice - the Palm Beach was "acquired") which later became London Clubs, and also Playboy - at the Vic.

The difference in attitude between all of those employers and Ladbrokes was palpable, what was less tangible but nonetheless evident was the difference that this made to the whole working environment.

Did customers get better service at Ladbrokes? Bet your arse they did. Did that better service result in increased profits for the company? Yep, Ladbrokes came from nowhere to be market leaders in London in a very short space of time.

The many variables that go into the equation of any company's financial success have been long pondered but never have I lost the indelible impression that was made on me of the absolute necessity of cultivating staff as a treasured resource, and it pains me to see that it is a lesson which
has still not been learned by many so called managers who have "bottom line" tatooed on their forehead.

I say Stanley deserve all that is coming at them.

[jhn]

Excellent post coconutretrieve,

Investing in staff makes sound business sense.That investment to be realised must be focused both on a financial and developmental structure.

So where do we start.

I am actually going to go against the grain of most casino workers in the UK and say that investment in management should be first and foremost in any consideration.

why ?

Well without upsetting too many people. The standard of management in UK casinos is well below what it should be.I can say this having worked in other industries.

So how is this done ?

1. Selection. A proper and effective application , interview and then selection process. Not everyone can be effective at every job. Managers should be viewed by the company as employees who carry out a set function. It is important to ensure before any other consideration that this person is capable of that function.His/her boy/girlfriend is a manager, he/she is my drinking buddy. i'd give them one or they always agree with evverything i say and give me info to discipline people is not good enough.Have an open application process and a panel from outwith that casino should make the decision.

2.Training. This is outside the box for a casino but........... People are not managers because the GBGB gives them a bit of paper. They have to be taught how to do their job and moulded into an effective employee in that position.Trained in H & S , man management , employment law and all other sundry things.

3.Development. Another outside the box one. Give your managers the funds and the time to take courses outwith the workplace be they at a vocational or degree level. Thus they feel valued and the company gains additional value.

So what do you have then. A management team who know the benefits of valuing staff, know the clear boundaries of what is proper behaviour and what isn't thus improving the conditions of the staff considerably.

Of course any existing managers who cannot or will not adapt to modern practices should be given their p45 as they are obviously incapable of carrying out their functions.

IMO the main problems with the casino industry in my area is that a large number of managers quite simply do not know what they are supposed to be doing. They think sack , bully , cause trouble , hide in the office is their job.

They need to be taught with both the carrot and the stick that this is not the case in order that they can carry out their functions properly.

This is as important for the company as it is for the staff.

As for investing and developing staff.

I agree with everything coconut retrieve said in this regard.

A wage that people can live on would also be helpful.

Edit: just to clarify. carrot and stick by the company not a union