GMB threatening strike action at Stanley Casinos

[Craig]

Yes I agree with the investment in staff, at all levels! I posted a long time ago about managers having the opportunity of getting qualifications outside of the casino such as business degrees, but I think that companies should go further and help people going through the ranks to get qualifications that would further their careers in the industry.

They should get help with friendly work practices that allow people to attend college, this is not out of the realms of fantasy, as I am sure most execs of these companies believe, flexible working times can achieve a lot of things, the rest can be achieved through the link below, most people working in casinos will be able to get help with their fees through the link below.

http://www.studentsupportdirect.co.uk

Originally Posted by jhn

As for investing and developing staff.

I agree with everything coconut retrieve said in this regard.

A wage that people can live on would also be helpful.

A lack of a sensible wage structure for casino workers is major reason why they can't get staff to work in their casinos, if you had a choice of going to work in a casino, with no bonus scheme, no tips, unhealthy work environment, anti-social hours, pay just above the legal limit or to go to Asda, with a bonus scheme, a healthy work environment, 9am - 5pm (if you want) with weekends off, the pay about the same, and a 10% discount on your shopping, what would you choose? Potential employees can see this, and they stay well clear of companies that have unfriendly work ethos, like the whole UK casino industry (mostly!).

Craig

[jhn]

I agree craig. Business and management degrees should be looked at.

However

The main point i was making was the lack of even the most basic and rudimentary management skills and knowledge.

To use an example :

What is the purpose of an investigatory process?..............To provide support and direction to employees who are not fulfilling their conditions of employment.The process should be used a problem solving tool i.e. if the employee has a poor attendance record.

First explain to the employee of the effects that poor attendance has on the business and other staff.

Discover if there are any issues that may have led to poor attendance. i.e workplace issues , illness , family problems , unsuitable work patterns etc.

Ask the employee what the company can do to help address these issues .

Take any steps within reason that may help to address these issues.

Agree a plan of action with the employee and set out the improvements in standards that the company requires.Keep the employee informed of how the company views their progress.

Now how many managers in casinos know that ? How many actually practice it ?

I would say in my experience very few. They would see an investigatory meeting as the annoying bit the company makes you do before you can give the F****** a warning.Which of course makes you hard and affirms your masculinity

I would say train them the basics first then move on to the hard stuff.

EDIT: I should add when speaking about in my experience it actually covers very few managers and there were one or two whom i would say were very good at their job.

[jhn]

Originally Posted by Craig

A lack of a sensible wage structure for casino workers is major reason why they can't get staff to work in their casinos, if you had a choice of going to work in a casino, with no bonus scheme, no tips, unhealthy work environment, anti-social hours, pay just above the legal limit or to go to Asda, with a bonus scheme, a healthy work environment, 9am - 5pm (if you want) with weekends off, the pay about the same, and a 10% discount on your shopping, what would you choose? Potential employees can see this, and they stay well clear of companies that have unfriendly work ethos, like the whole UK casino industry (mostly!).

Craig

When i left the casino biz i had to get a job sharpish.bills to pay etc. so ended up for the first few months sticking things in boxes in a factory because it was the first job i was offered.

Now i was the highest paid dealer in the club i worked in.

Anyone care to take a guess as to which job i was payed more in ?.

1 senior dealer

2 packer in a factory

[jhn]

You know i think the worst thing about all of this is that i can remember and it wasn't in the too dim and distant past that given the choice between working for any company in the UK.

I would have chosen Stanley.

No qualms , no second thoughts.Some people might disagree but they were a good company to work for.

Everything changes though i suppose

It should never have had to come to this.

[Patsy]

Funny when I go to Asda quite often they have not got enough staff to open the checkouts, then I go to the bank and they do not have enough cashiers to open the tills (this used to be considered a fantastic job) then worst of all I go to the Post Office and find a snake like queue all over the shop and maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 windows open ( this was also a fantastic job ) I also see in the paper that a National Bus Company were taking on 1000 Polish Bus drivers as they could not employ any English people. Sorry to stir things up, but it is not just the Casino Business that is struggling to find staff. Also the best quote in the G.M.B. press release was about the poor valets who were earning just over minimum wage, did anyone think to ask them when they had lodged their last Income Tax Returns, declaring their tips.

[Craig]

Hi Patsy,

Yes its probably true about a lot of jobs, just look at this weekend's press article.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/primar...508660,00.html

As for the checkout thing, try Tesco's they always seem to open enough tills Still look at the wages these people earn in Asda stacking shelves for example, it is on a par with what people earn on the tables in a casino, so how can it be said that the jobs have comparably the same responsibilties, hence the same kind of wage structure? Its simply casinos run on the cheap by bean pushers who only can see whats written in front of them, they can't see that they are damaging the whole industry by their shortsightedness!

Craig

[jhn]

The story of WL Gore "best employer in Britain"

http://www.personneltoday.com/Articl...y+the+best.htm

used to be Just up the road from me. Unfortunately people only leave in caskets so no chance of getting a job.

Low staff turnover (5%) highly profitable and successful on an international scale.This is with continental shifts so thats no excuse for casinos

The article makes interesting reading. Take the staid out of date casino HR mentality and completely reverse it and you have happy and productive staff

Craig mentions Tesco having plenty of staff.They also won this award and operate in the same manner.

So what lessons can casinos learn ?

I agree with Patsy about valets. Dealers , receptionists and kitchen/bar staff all earn minimum wage or just above in most of the UK. They should be the main priority when it comes to wages.

Just had to add this bit in ! What makes WL Gore successful

Equality within the workplace
Salaries proportional to contribution
Staff evaluated by each other
No hierarchy within the company
Multi-tasking
Emphasis on leadership

Could you imagine telling most people in casinos "you are not superior or inferior to anyone, you are an equal who will be treated as such by the company and your colleagues "

[jhn]

It would appear negotiations are not going too well and Stanley staff are prepared to resort to the ultimate sanction against their employer

Odds shorten on casino workers pay strike

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4715433

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx...fx2100754.html

2000 Staff voted 4 to 1 against the offer made by the company AND are in favour of taking industrial action

At a rough guess Stanley casinos have about 2,500 employees so there appears to be 80% union membership.And that is an overwhelming figure against the deal and in favour of industrial action.

[Coventryman]

interesting times are afoot

[jhn]

This is the press release of the GMB union

http://www.politics.co.uk/press-rele...s-$8789862.htm

It appears that Stanley have decided to break off negotiations and lay down 'a take it or leave it' final offer.

Confrontation rather than compromise IMO is never a good option for a business to take in relation to its staff.

The GMB have offered to re-convene negotiations on 27th June to try and thrash out a deal.

The caveat is that if Stanley refuse this offer then a full ballot to move to strike action will be held.

I do love analogies. Watched Doctor Who on Saturday night and was struck by the similarity between the Dalek emperor and his minions in comparison to my former GMs and their management teams.

It struck when the emperor claimed to be a god and one of his minions responded "worship him , worship him , worship him"

And also the mentality that was to ' exterminate ' everything they came across.No compromise , no questions asked just ' exterminate '

ah memories..........

I would actually expect there will be some of the more idiosantric management teams planning to go on something of a spree.

Replace 'exterminate , exterminate , exterminate ' with ' intimidate , intimidate , intimidate ' and you'll see what i mean.

The GMB legal depatment should be busy and expect a few tribunals in the offing.

There will be many managers also thinking 'yes they'll get a wage rise and better conditions'. I might be able to hold onto some of my staff rather than them all going to tesco to stack shelves.

So will Stanley step back from the brink ? or are we going to see the first UK casino workers strike in history ?

[anin1]

jhn

While the option to strike is the last resort of the workers it is usually a lose/lose situation. The “no work, no pay” situation results in the staff having no income for the period of the strike. Very often the loss in wages is such that they have to work for months at the new wage just to make up for the lost wages!!
If those contemplating strike action are earning close to minimum wages they will not have been able to save enough to meet all obligations through what could become a protracted period of not having an income.
I am not suggesting that industrial action should not be an option but it is not a walk in the park for any of the parties.

amin

[jhn]

anin,

If this dispute was only about salary then your observation would be in the main correct.Unfortunately the grievances run far deeper.

The companys 'laisez faire' attitude towards verbal and physical abuse of staff , having staffing levels below the minimum required meaning the few staff there are are overworked , bullying and harassment,the general attitude of the company towards its employees and of course salary scales have not just not kept up with inflation they have actually been cut.

The option of withdrawing ones labour is a very big step to take. It is the ultimate sanction against the employer and is also as you rightly say a short term sacrifice on the part of the workers .

Unions do pay strike pay (although this will be below wages). There will also no doubt be money raised as is usual when there is a group of workers on strike.Yes the staff will lose some money in the short term but IMHO they have alot more to gain.

I actually hope it does not get as far as a strike and that some agreement can be reached.

It would appear however that the company would rather take a confrontational stance than attempt to reach an amicable compromise.

Hopefully Stanley will see sense and go back to the negotiating table.

[jhn]

This Glasgow Evening Times article claims that the company broke off talks after only 15 minutes.

Frightening if true but we should remember that newspapers do tend to sensationalise.

Also there are nowhere near 200 members of staff in the Glasgow Stanley. But that is probably emphasising the local slant for its readers

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5040250.html

EDITED

I have just figured out where the figures came from 200 positions in scotland across stanleys 4 casinos. The regional office is based in Glasgow Stanley.

The article also has a quote from a Stanley spokesperson

"Stanley is committed to finding an acceptable solution. We are still in discussions with the GMB to try to resolve this dispute."

So it appears Stanley are again willing to negotiate.

[Newview]

Interesting thread ....

First question - if the GMB employees do strike, presumably it'll just be the 40% who strike, leaving 60% to man the tables - is this enough to cripple the casino income ? Because it will obviously cripple the staff's income ....

Secondly, and slightly defensively, in response to Craig, my example of staff wages was genuine (they've more than doubled since I was a dealer about 10 years ago), as I'm sure was the other example given - just shows what fun you can have with statistics. I'm both right and wrong, then !!

As for as overall working conditions go, we're all biased by what we see I suppose, but the stories coming out of Scotland are scary ... I must have been lucky never to have experienced anything so bad directly. The old question remains though - why do people put up with it ... I mean I know they shouldn't have to change jobs due to poor management, but why would you stay if treatment and pay and hours are so bad ?

[jhn]

hi newview,

First question. The figure for membership as was able to be gathered from the results of the ballot is 2,000.Stanley has 2,500 employees in its casino division so membership is 80%

Also take into account that 300 of this 2,500 are managers/pit bosses and the figures are

2000 union members out of 2,200 staff. Almost 100%

So they could cripple the companys income quite easily. The one thing too about casinos is with the gaming licence , CRB etc. there is no chance of a strike being broken by bringing in outside labour.

Secondly as the name of this post suggests statistics can probably be twisted to mean anything. I would say however that the evidence suggests that salaries across the industry have fallen considerably but that there may be some local anomolies.

And last of all regarding working conditions and why people stay here are some figures from scotlands capital.

casino (a) 7 staff on a nightshift
casino (b) 6 staff on a nightshift
casino (c) 11 staff on a nightshift[just had a training school]

The people that are left fit into two groups

1 Those that had a belief/hope that after de-regulation the world would be a bright and rosy place and pay and conditions would improve massively.Many of this group now have children , bills to pay etc. and so don't leave as at least they can rely on getting paid at the end of the month [even if it is a pittance]

2 The ' i cant do anything else ' group. Strangely enough when bullied , intimidated and told you are a piece of dirt for years from your superiors you tend to believe it at some point. A way to keep staff turnover down a bit. Shred people of their dignity and confidence and you might be able to keep them under your control.

I think anyone could ascertain from the figures that less and less people are falling into these 2 groups and getting out of the industry.Although many are now crossing the Irish sea in search of better conditions.

But as newview said "why should people have to change jobs due to poor management and conditions"

Why indeed.

[jhn]

Just thought i would add this in as it does have some relevance although it was in France December 2004.

Strike averted by last minute deal

http://www.eiro.eurofound.eu.int/200...r0501103f.html

Some interesting stats also on the French market and it appears consolidation is not only restricted to the UK or US either.Also the French market has seen significant growth.

This is an interesting commentary from the article

The planned strike action in the casino sector holds a number of lessons. First, it shows that strike notices may play a 'preventive' role when the various sides agree to try to reconvene talks before the deadline for action. It also highlights the specific nature of a sector underpinned by unsocial working hours and specific employment conditions, which raise more general problems dealt with working conditions and workplace health. (Benoît Robin, IRES)

[dangandalan]

I just hope they agree on a deal within the next 2 days so that the pay rise will go into this month's salary and I get the backdated rise before I quit at the end of the month.

Without the union intervention, I would have had an extra £50 a month for the last two months, but now I lose out because the unions want to flex their muscles.

I'm glad I'm getting out of this business!!

[Markd]

ever since we've had unions our pay rise has always been up to 3 months late, and the delay has never improved the offer, but the Fred Kites have got all excited and rant and rave like British Leyland shop stewards - What ever happended to British Leyland?
I know tha a lot of reps are decent people doing the best they can but there is a core of militants (known to us all as Fred Kites) who have nothing positive to say about the company -- ever. They usually seem to be rowing with themselves a lot of the time and can be quite intimidating if you dare to have a different view.
I expect it will be the same this year except the GMB Stanleys thing has given them hope that they can do the same here. Its like something out of the past and embarassing. Management should tell them to just leave if they hate the business so much.

[jhn]

I think the thing you seem to be forgetting markd, and it is a very important part that these shop stewards have been elected by your workmates to represent their views.

If the staff are unhappy with these people and the manner in which they are being represented then they can and will elect someone else.Very simple and very easy.

I have to say though that the equation you come to of :

wanting better pay and conditions = hating the business

is one that i cannot understand.

As for strikes being a thing of the past.Yes it would be nice if they were unfortunately the staff at stanleys have been forced into the position by the company that this is the only viable option they have in order that the company will behave properly.

Remember this dispute is down to the company refusing to try and find a compromise with its staff. The company chose confrontation and it has backfired big time.

This dispute as has been related in this thread and others goes alot deeper than just an annual payrise

You also seem to misunderstand how industrial action comes about. It is not someone deciding on everyone elses behalf that they want it.

A [secret] ballot is held and staff vote for or against any decision.The decision to have a ballot is made because the staff want a ballot.

The stanley staff have voted to take action if the company continues to refuse to try and reach agreement.As you may know the company has now agreed to sit down again with the staff to try and come to an agreement on June 27th.

You do mention british leyland[never worked for them i'm too young].I am from an area where we had a big plant closed.Nothing to do with trade unions,the place not making money or anything like that. It came down to someone deciding to play politics with peoples livelyhoods and i didn't particularly like my community being destroyed by some mad englishwoman to get at her opponents who i don't even support.

But thats politics and i am beginning to suspect your views have alot more to do with politics than they are to do with what is best for the casino industry.

Personally politics isn't one of my hobbies or interests.Very boring

This is a casino operations forum lets keep it that way

btw i'm not a trade union rep [why do i keep feeling the need to say that]

[Markd]

I didn't start the thread.

If unions dont do politics then how come most of their money comes from the Labour Government ? and second from members.

Its only if your a member that you get to vote in ballots or for reps. After I saw they could not control the behavior of a few Fred Kites I cancelled mine and I'm not alone by a long way. Saved myself £120.00 a year. Why is it a secret ballot - why not open and transparent ?

We got a letter saying our last pay rise was rejected by 100 against and 50 for, but the workforce is over 1000 ????!! seems strange does it not. Is that fair ? not to 900 its not. Seems to make a nonsense of the argument that its the majority.

Must start to get ready for work.

[jhn]

markd,

This thread was started as the dispute at stanleys is possibly the biggest news in the UK industry for a generation.

It is something that people wanted to discuss and people wanted to know what was happening.

This forum is for news and debate on the casino business so it has its place.Its certainly not the only type of thread that is posted on the forum by any means.

As a member you are also free to post threads for debate and discussion on whatever topic you choose.

I don't believe that trade unions are given money by the government.I think you may be wildly mistaken with that statement.

I can't really comment on the conditions in your company as i suspect that they are based in London with only a couple of provincials.If it is i have never worked for them and don't know that much about them.

I would presume though that a majority of the staff are in a trade union otherwise the company would not recognise the staffs right to bargain collectively.

re:secret ballot

Quite obvious really.Neither the company,union nor other members of staff know how an individual voted.So no pressure can be put on anyone to vote one way or another.Seems a good idea to me.

[ian]

Scottish casinos (Stanley has 4 of the 13) will almost certainly be going smoke free in April 2006 and many of the negative comments on this and other threads apply to operations north of the border.

This is one aspect that should be taken into account during negotiations. Separate non-enclosed areas will have to be built for both staff and customers at each casino. Will Stanley management want their dealers, inspectors and pitbosses congregating with punters in these areas - I don't think so !.


In Ireland the smoking areas are basically heated (yes, they will have to be heated) lighted, semi-covered patios with chairs and tables. As many customers also like a drink while puffing away they are also served by staff from the main building.

IMO a smoking ban will result in an immediate 20 to 25% drop in business and it's going to play major havoc with individual casino budgets.


However there is a simple solution to the staff problem at one location. If a convenient power point is available then the tumble dryer can always be dragged outside.


Ian

[ian]

Michael Ainsley from the GMB Union has been in contact with me and you can read his reply to comments from Markd on the thread...

British deregulation - Unions forming a Union
http://www.gamingfloor.biz/forum/showthread.php?t=1297

The content of these two particular threads is quite similar however this one is more focussed on the Stanley/GMB talks that are scheduled to take place once again on the 27th June (tomorrow).


I took the opportunity in an earlier email to ask Mr Ainsley a couple of questions myself.

Where are the talks with Stanley being held - in Liverpool or elsewhere. ?

Who pays the bills when there are events like this arranged - do Unions except any form of hospitality ?


He replied...

" In answer to your questions the meeting will be in London at the, as far as hospitality goes if we are meeting in one of the company premises they provide any refreshments and we reciprocate when we host. "


So the talks are in London, but the location was missing !
It's probably just an error so I've fired off another to find out exactly where.


Ian

[TurboGP]

any news on the latest round of pay talks? It was meant to be today wasn't it? 27th June.

[Coventryman]

Last time I heard they were still at it (18:00 GMT).